Inside the 1228, it seems that this same Clemence along with her spouse Nicholas was basically chosen to get infant custody of Joanna and you can Llywelyn's daughter Susanna (old from the fourteen?). is apparently to your child become elevated when you look at the a safe and you may safer ecosystem towards window of opportunity for a much better studies. the situation were getting left off their particular. The fresh new custodial give was by the Queen Henry III, half-sis in order to Joanna and 1 / 2 of-brother in order to Susanna, the decree named Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you can Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'
A concern now presents in itself. In the event the Joanna is actually brand new daughter from Clemence le Boteler, out of, apparently a keen English home, how do we determine exactly what Joanna is performing in the France when Queen John sent having their own within the 1203? You to you are able to response is one Clemence's father, Philip ce Boteler is French, rather than English. It actually was common during the time for people to hold services to your both parties of one's Route. That it ed his dilies compared to English family members during this time.
Really the only publication in which We have encountered a mention of the Clemence Pinel – partner out-of Henry Pinel (aside from Charles Cawley in Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir's ‘England's Royal Families: The whole Genealogy (London area, 1989).' It publication is detailed of the one genealogist once the ‘not too totally annotated.' My trawl from the genealogy and family history online forums discovered scant resource toward Pinel family members, and Clemence's husband Henry Pinel. Multiple entries recommend that Joanna is actually the fresh child out-of Henry Pinel along with his wife Clemence, however, zero sources, capable of being featured, are offered. I am for this reason inclined to disregard that it lady away from after that investigation. I am able to getting most wrong.
Matter out-of Mortain indonesian brud, during the Normandy, understood from their particular [and maybe
Clemence de Fougers try the sister out of Richard de Hommet, Constable out of Normandy, and you will Geoffrey de Fougeres. Their unique dad is William du Fougers. You will find zero day of delivery (otherwise death) of Clemence, but she was initially partnered just before 1200 (zero big date readily available) so you can Alan de Dinan, and you may is preferred sufficient to get married in October 1200, once the their own next partner, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl away from Chester and you may Vicomte d'Avranches, recently separated (matrimony annulled?) regarding Constance of Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured that Earl Ranulph divorced Constance for having had an affair having Queen John!
Definitely, create it Clemence function as mother away from Joanna, she would even be brand new grandmother out of Susanna, however, there isn’t any need to think your more youthful Joanna understood, today, that there are children dating, if
As Clemence de Fougers is actually daughter and you may brother off Constables from Normandy, It’s imagine likely that John, *knew* their particular, just before their unique wedding to Ranulph]. A close link with John you are going to establish what might hunt a very useful 2nd wedding to own Clemence so you're able to Ranulph.
Ranulph, 6 th Earl off Chester yet not, was a strong baron and it also beggars belief, at the very least for me, that he would have accepted a wedding so you're able to a lady exactly who got had a known affair and you can a following youngster of the John, Number off Mortain some ten years previously. Like because of the rumours surrounding a potential affair ranging from John and you will 1st wife Constance!